How to Build a Brand People Actually Trust (Without Going Viral) w/Yvonne Pearson
In today's algorithm-driven world, many entrepreneurs and creators feel pressure to chase viral moments and maintain constant online presence. But what if building a sustainable brand building has nothing to do with going viral and instead has everything to do with being your authentic self?
Most struggle with brand marketing because they’re trying to be like everyone else. In this debut episode, marketing expert Yvonne Pearson from Pink Dollhouse Marketing shares game-changing insights about building powerful brands and how to transform your approach to brand marketing.
Yvonne didn't set out to become a marketing strategist. She started out pre-med, saw blood for the first time, and pivoted her whole life around one art history class. Now she splits her time between running her own agency for small Black-owned businesses, nonprofits, and creators, and leading marketing for the American Chemical Society. Yes, chemistry. She'll tell you why that "unsexy" job is one of the best she's ever had.
From content creation without burnout to attracting brand partnerships without chasing clout, Yvonne keeps it real about the power of finding your authentic brand voice and building a marketing strategy rooted in value, not noise.
Here’s What We Cover:
Finding (and protecting) your authentic voice and why people can always sense when you're faking it
What to look for when you're hiring a real marketing expert and the difference between someone who leads with a quick fix and someone who asks real questions first
Why brand partnerships are possible even with a small following and Yvonne’s pitch-email formula, what goes in a media kit, and why she tells creators with 300 followers to send the email anyway
How to market without chasing virality or burning yourself out
Why social media is not a marketing strategy and why brands should not overlook email lists, SEO and even billboards
Yvonne's honest take on using AI in marketing: where it's a helpful starting point, and where it becomes a crutch that catches up with you later
Practical, no-fluff advice for anyone starting a podcast, from guest outreach to picking the right platforms for your actual audience
If you’ve been posting, pitching and putting yourself out there and you haven’t seen results, this episode is proof that the fix usually isn't a new strategy; it's getting honest about who you are and building a brand around your authentic self.
"It takes ten years sometimes to be an overnight success. You can have a viral video, but that doesn't mean you have a brand.” - Yvonne Pearson
For more marketing strategies or to work with Yvonne for your next marketing campaign, visit her website PinkDollhouse Marketing. Follow on social media at YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok.
MORE ABOUT THE KICKBACK WITH KERI PODCAST
There are more Black-owned businesses in America than ever before. Finding them, supporting them, and building one is a different conversation entirely.
The Kickback With Keri is a podcast hosted by Keri Henderson, a small business consultant and community builder with 15 years of experience in procurement, small business content marketing, and consulting. Keri built this platform because she believes Black-owned businesses deserve more than a moment of visibility. They deserve a community that shows up for them.
In each episode, Keri kicks back with Black entrepreneurs, founders, and small business owners to get into small business strategy, business insights, and what it actually takes to grow a Black-owned business - finding customers, overcoming barriers, closing the racial wealth gap, and building generational wealth in Black communities.
We’ll tackle questions like:
How do I find Black-owned businesses to support?
What grants are available for Black small business owners?
How do Black entrepreneurs get funding without investors?
How to start a business with no money as a Black entrepreneur?
How to build generational wealth in the Black community?
What are the best Black-owned beauty brands?
How to grow a small Black-owned business on a limited budget?
Where can I find Black-owned brands to shop online?
Whether you're shopping Black-owned brands or building one of your own, the show spotlights businesses across beauty, food, fashion, and lifestyle.
If you are building a Black-owned business, trying to figure out how to fund or grow it, or looking for Black-owned brands to add to your life, this show is for you. Follow The Kickback With Keri wherever you listen.
Connect on Instagram at @kerilhenderson | @thekickbackwithkeri
THE UNEDITED PODCAST TRANSCRIPT FOR THIS EPISODE OF THE KICKBACK WITH KERI PODCAST
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[00:00] "You Don't Have to Go Viral to Have a Brand"
Yvonne: It takes ten years sometimes to be an overnight success. And what I think the creative space is creating, in terms of bad habits, is people think one viral video is going to carry you forward. When in reality, you can have a viral video, but you don't have a brand.
[00:45] Welcome to The Kickback with Keri + Meet Yvonne Pearson
Keri: Hello, everyone, and welcome to The Kickback with Keri podcast. I'm your host, Keri Henderson, and I'm super excited for my guest today. I have known her for over ten years — we grew up as bloggers in our twenties, and now we're out here doing big things, so I'm excited for us to have a conversation. You will leave here laughing and taking some notes, and you will want to book this person to help you with your marketing, because she is the marketing guru on all of our socials. Welcome, Yvonne Pearson!
Yvonne: Hi! Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Keri: You're welcome. And I want you to know, you are my very first guest. I'm honored.
Yvonne: I'd like to thank God and my mama for getting me into this position of being her first guest.
Keri: You were my very first. So I'm honored you took the drive to come out here.
Yvonne: I will do the drive for you. Some folks I will Zoom in, and they might even get a phone call if we're not that cool.
[01:41] Celebrating Yvonne's MarTech Award Win
Keri: Well, I appreciate you coming. First of all, I want to give you your flowers, because I saw that you won the MarTech Awards for Best Boutique Marketing Agency in 2023 in DC. So congratulations to you.
Yvonne: Thank you.
Keri: I love your marketing — is it Marketing Magic? — your breakdowns that you do on TikTok and Instagram, because I was like, ooh, that's good. So we're going to talk about that. I know you work with creators, nonprofits, and you be dropping gems, especially the recent TikTok we were both in the comments talking about. But I want to know — when did you fall in love with marketing?
[02:14] How Yvonne Fell in Love with Marketing
Yvonne: You know, we accidentally fell in love, to be honest with you. I was always a creative, right? But as you know, growing up Black, or as a person of color, our creativity is looked at as a hobby. It's not looked at as a career. So growing up, I thought I was going to be a doctor. I was determined. I got my scholarship for school, for pre-med. Got into school, saw blood for the first time — dropped.
Keri: You were like, "No, thank you. No, thank you. I got it."
Yvonne: And then honestly, it kind of found me. I took an art history class in Romanticism and Impressionism, and I sat there in that class and the light bulb just turned on in that moment. And I was trying to figure out how do I blend this whole art history thing with the business side and creativity.
[03:09] Creating Her Own College Major
Yvonne: So I created my own major.
Keri: I know, right? Like — mom was a little worried at first, but she graduated on time, in four years.
Yvonne: Uno, dos, tres, cuatro. Four years. I created my major in advertising, art, and marketing — so a combo of art history, marketing, and art classes.
[03:31] Directing Her College's First Charity Fashion Show
Yvonne: And it wasn't until I directed my college's first-ever charity fashion show for the Black Student Union that all of those things came together. I had to direct the photo shoots, direct the visuals, do the marketing outreach to different HBCUs and different clubs and organizations. And using that training really made me think — I love being a person behind the scenes who helps move those chess pieces forward.
Keri: I'm the same way. Everyone thinks marketing folks want to be in front of the camera. Let me tell you something —
Yvonne: We don't. We don't, unless we have to.
Keri: Exactly. And a lot of times, for those of us who love being behind the scenes, we like pushing others to be in front of it.
Yvonne: And what I love about what I do with marketing, and when I initially fell in love with it, is I get to amplify other people's talent through my creativity and my strategic direction.
[04:22] Coming Up in the 2009–2011 Blogging Era
Keri: But since you like to be behind the scenes, how did it feel — because we met on the blogging scene, and if you're a blogger, we were 2009, 2010, 2011. That was like the sweet spot when a lot of blogs were coming out. So for someone who likes to be behind the scenes, how did you get comfortable being a blogger? Because not only are we writing on our platforms, but we were around when Instagram first launched.
Yvonne: Oh, my God. Those filters. They were some work. We were posting outfit photos, doing all the things, going to all the blogger events in DC.
Keri: So how did you get comfortable putting yourself out there? Because you even do that now, with the stuff you share online.
Yvonne: To be honest with you, it takes a lot of effort for me to do that. The energy I'm giving you right now — when the lights go off, I kind of go back into my regular mode. It's very surprising for people, because this is me being myself, but it's very hard for me to put myself out there. So even when I do my TikToks, I have to hype myself up.
Keri: Are you an introvert?
Yvonne: I'm an extroverted introvert. I do it because of my job — but me on a day-to-day basis? Absolutely not.
Keri: You're like, you can't do this all day, every day.
Yvonne: No. And even with being a blogger, I actually started my blog because I was having trouble finding a full-time job in marketing. So I was like, I can show them better than I can tell them. I started the blog to show that I can write, that I could be creative, that I understand different parts of the industry. And that really helped me move into the right space.
[05:56] Running Pink Dollhouse Marketing While Working Full-Time in Chemistry
Keri: So how do you bring — because not only is she the owner of her own company, Pink Dollhouse Marketing, but she is also marketing for the American Chemical Society. So when it comes to marketing, a lot of people think, if I need a marketing job, I want to be at an agency, or an entertainment company, or a big advertising company. So how did you find a position in chemistry? And what advice would you give someone looking, because I know when I was looking for marketing jobs in the beginning, it was always like a more creative space — but we forget everybody needs marketing.
[06:42] How the Job at the American Chemical Society Found Her
Yvonne: Honestly, again — let me give props to the universe and the ancestors. The universe always aligns me with where I'm supposed to be. And even my career, it seems very untraditional — working in marketing, starting in the fashion space, now working in chemistry. The job found me, to be honest. I was searching on LinkedIn, and this position popped up — the American Chemical Society. I looked at the role and thought, this could be something cool. To be honest with you, I thought I was going to be bored out of my mind, because I was like, what do I know about chemistry? I barely passed biology when I was pre-med! But I have to say, it's one of the best jobs I have ever had.
Keri: And you look like you're having fun. Because you post all the time when you guys are going to different conferences and conventions, and I'm like, she's having a ball with this in her position.
Yvonne: I'm having so much fun. And honestly, I think for those who are looking for roles in marketing and comms, we have to broaden ourselves out for what we think are the sexy and the cool jobs — because sometimes the jobs that don't seem sexy and cool on paper are the dopest jobs you will ever have.
[08:02] "Chemistry Is Life": Why the Unsexy Job Is the Best Job
Yvonne: Y'all — hi. Chemistry, let me break this down for you: chemistry legit is life. Your nail polish? Chemistry. Your skin care? Chemistry. Your hair care? Chemistry. All the things that you love is chemistry. Down to photography — chemistry is also photography, which is a campaign I have coming up for Chemists Celebrate Earth Week. And what I really realized by taking the time to learn the industry I'm in — no matter what industry — is that I'm able to invest myself, find some common knowledge that I already share, and dive full deep into that field, and really put my best self forward.
[08:43] Nothing Is Wasted: Connecting the Dots on Your Career
Keri: So what I'm hearing is that everything you've done before has prepared you for where you are right now. So nothing is wasted.
Yvonne: No. Nothing is wasted.
Keri: Because I think sometimes when we're going through certain situations, we're just like, "How am I ever going to use this later?" Even blogging — at the time, we're like, okay, we're doing blogging, we love it. But when you move away from that, you probably think, "Well, how am I ever going to use that?" Personally, I'm like, oh, I had a newsletter because I was doing the blog. I didn't think I'd be writing a newsletter again — but here we are, ten-plus years later, and I'm back to doing a newsletter again. We've seen the landscape of social change so much from when we started, and we're using what we learned when we were first on the platform to now.
[09:36] Becoming a Picky Sidepreneur
Keri: So I've heard you use the term "sidepreneur" before. Do you still refer to yourself as one?
Yvonne: In a way, I do. I'm more picky now in the projects that I take on, because my role in marketing has elevated so much — I'm senior in my field. And being senior, I don't have the same amount of time as I did before, when I was like a coordinator, to take on multiple projects. Now I take on maybe one to two projects a year. Very picky.
Keri: Well, that's a blessing — because everybody ain't able.
Yvonne: Kind of like how I admire people — I know I say I love Beyoncé, but I really do love Beyoncé — I admire people like her who don't just do something just to do it. And that's how I look at my business. Even down to my podcast, I want to make sure whatever I'm putting out there represents me to the fullest.
[10:21] Being Intentional Instead of Half-Assing It
Yvonne: It's not just some half-assed work I slap together to get some downloads or some views. I know some of y'all want to sit up there and say you gotta post every day to stay relevant — I don't. To be honest with you, Keri, and this is why I also admire you as well — we post content that's relevant to us, that's relevant to our audience, but we also make sure that we're not just posting to post.
Keri: Absolutely. We're very intentional.
Yvonne: And when I look at myself as a sidepreneur, I think about the projects I want to take on and being intentional about being able to give my full self to those projects. Because a lot of times, Keri, I'm working with small business owners — people of color, minority or women-owned businesses — who cannot hire me full-time. And so when I take these products on, I'm taking on something they've poured their heart, their soul, and their money into. So why would I be a half-assed person and say, okay, I have five clients on my roster, I just want to check the box? I would rather take one check and take my time to really dive into what they're doing, and make sure I'm giving them the best results.
[11:46] Turning Pink Dollhouse from a Blog into an LLC (2017)
Keri: I love that. So let's talk a little bit about Pink Dollhouse. You started in 2017 — what inspired you to say, "I am in the marketing space full-time, but I also want to create something on my own"?
Yvonne: I honestly turned my blog into a business, because Pink Dollhouse was my blog. And then I noticed I started getting a lot more requests from nonprofits — "Hey, can you help us with this? Can you help us with that?" And one thing I don't do is take money under the table. So I actually created my LLC, legally. I started the LLC — I had no guideline for it, either — but I knew that by starting my business, anything I buy, from a computer to a camera, is a tax write-off.
By starting Pink Dollhouse, I wanted to be able to give the knowledge I had in these corporate spaces to small, minority-owned businesses who, no shade, no foul, are being told by these "experts" online, "this is what you should be doing" — and a lot of times these experts don't have the educational background or the experience to actually know what they're doing.
[13:22] What to Look for When Hiring a Real Marketing Expert
Keri: So to that point — what should nonprofits, and I know you also work with creators, be looking for in marketers? Because these days, everybody and their mom is a marketer. If you have a large social media account, if you're a large following, you can call yourself a marketing expert. And it kind of unfortunately dilutes the industry with people like you, who have been doing this work for so long and legitimately want to help people get their brand voice out there and help them be a great business. So what should somebody be looking for, to make sure they're working with someone legit and not someone just trying to take their money?
Yvonne: Yeah, that's a great question. Honestly, look for someone who doesn't automatically give you a quick fix. A lot of times I do consultation calls — forms are great, I use them as a building block to figure out the framework of our conversation — and just have an honest conversation about, okay, you have this business, why do you feel that you need someone to come in for marketing right now? And allow them to talk. While they're talking, take notes. The notes don't have to be perfect, but start circling key areas that come up repeatedly. If they're saying, "no one is paying attention to our content," that might not just be a content thing — it might be how you're posting, what campaign copy you're using, what hashtags you're using, what your voice is, essentially. And a lot of times, marketers who are new in the space — let me be nice about this — focus solely on the content, but they don't focus on the voice.
Keri: Yes.
Yvonne: And marketers who are actually good at what they do can adjust their voice for different audiences. I can speak in the chemistry field, I can also speak in the creativity field. Also, look for someone who, when they're talking to you, doesn't just think of social media as the end-all be-all.
Keri: Say that again, please. This is the Yvonne moment.
[15:19] Why Social Media Can't Be Your Only Marketing Lever
Yvonne: Don't just look at social media as the end-all be-all solution for your marketing. Marketing, to me — you have to pull every lever possible to move the needle forward. You have to get in front of your audience seven times, roughly, in order for someone to pay attention. And a lot of times people focus solely on social media, thinking that if they do this post, if they put like $300 behind it, it's going to get a bunch of people to do what they want. It won't. So you need to ask, "Besides social, how else are you talking to your audience? What else are you doing?" And another thing marketers have to be mindful of is the comfort level of the business owner in putting themselves in front of the camera.
Keri: I agree 100%. I work with a client on the coaching-consulting side, and before, I had him going live every single week, because he literally is the face of the brand. And one thing I always tell people — do not rely solely on social media, because when those algorithms go down, as they have multiple times, how are you going to communicate with your audience? Do you have an email list? A text message list? A website that's SEO-functioning so people can still find you? So I love that you said that, because social media is not the end-all be-all.
Yvonne: It's not. And we also forget, depending on your area of marketing — for example, I just finished working with a festival here in the DMV, and one of the areas I brought up for opportunity for next year is, have you thought about buying a billboard?
[16:57] The Case for Billboards and Old-School Marketing
Yvonne: A lot of times people forget the old-school ways still work for a reason. Billboards, to me, are a low-investment way to have a higher impact. While you can't track the exact clicks, you can get an estimate of how many cars go by per day who may see that billboard, and the ROI that can create.
Keri: That is true — they use billboards all the time in LA. When I was living out there, every time a movie or a new show is coming out, it's a big deal if you have a billboard. If you're an actor or actress, the first thing they do is find their billboard and take a picture in front of it. So it does still work.
[17:40] Building a Brand Without Chasing Viral (KevOnStage & Jasmine Smith)
Keri: So you work with nonprofits, you also work with creators, and the creator landscape has changed dramatically as well. What advice would you give to someone starting out in the creator space? Content creation is becoming a moneymaker for a lot of people, and I saw someone post recently that a lot of people want to quit their full-time job to become a content creator full-time — and the advice was, don't do that, you make this temporary money to build a business. So what advice would you give to someone who wants to build a brand online?
Yvonne: I'm going to use two examples. The first is KevOnStage.
Keri: Love KevOnStage.
Yvonne: I love his wife too, Melissa — I listen to her podcast with her sister. And I'm going to also use a smaller content creator, Jasmine Smith. One thing about KevOnStage I love — he was consistent for over ten years.
Keri: Over ten years. Say that one more time.
Yvonne: Over ten years. It takes ten years sometimes to be an overnight success. And what I think the creative space is creating in terms of bad habits is people think one viral video is going to carry them forward. When in reality, you can have a viral video, but you don't have a brand. For example, I went viral recently — I did not see that coming — but in that viral video, I had to make it clear to those new followers: thank you for following me, but this is actually the content that I create, I'm not going to be out here doing this all the time. Sometimes when people are looking at being content creators, they're trying to do every single different type of video to find what sticks and makes them famous — but that may not be true to you. And people can smell someone who's being inauthentic a mile away. People are very smart these days. They're not falling for the okey-doke that people used to fall for.
So KevOnStage, what he's done very well — he started out as a comedian. You can use your platform to evolve your brand. He started as a comedian, then created an app for other content creators, then had a YouTube channel, then church tours that turned into other comedy tours, then a social distance tour, then one with all women comedians. Then he took that brand and expanded it further — he noticed his wife was getting a lot of attention on social, so now "Mrs. KevOnStage" is her handle, and she has a podcast with her sister. The brand is evolving, but the base was Kev being a comedian. He found his base and built on it. He didn't just start as a comedian, DIY his way into five different things, and then say, "ooh, this one popped off, this is now my lane." He stuck to his lane and evolved from there. That's what I think a lot of creators have to accept: if this is your lane and you are naturally good at it, it's okay to stick to it. Just because you only got 500 views — girl, you better applaud yourself for those 500 views. Because in real life, 500 people looking at your stuff is a lot. Even ten people. People be like, "oh, I only had ten likes" — but do you get in front of ten people on a regular basis? You've got to put things in perspective.
And another example — Jasmine Smith. I've known Jasmine since before her blogging days, and to see her evolve into a content creator on YouTube who's built a community space on TikTok — Jasmine didn't start out with a bajillion followers, she started with maybe ten subscribers on her YouTube channel. But the girl was consistent, and she found her lane — talking about her love of makeup, fashion, and faith. She found her lane, she found her audience, and now she's getting more brand opportunities because she's being authentic. And consistent. Keyword is consistency. And also, people forget you don't have to just be consistent on one platform. Social media is really great, but if you want to be consistent through your podcast, or through speaking engagements, or in-person interactions, that's okay too. Social media doesn't have to be the only way you broadcast yourself.
Keri: I agree. I'm so glad you said that, because I think we've gotten so consumed with social media being the end-all be-all that people forget there are people building businesses off this platform who are never on social media and are running million-dollar businesses — or you only see a tenth of everything they're doing on the platform. People can think that's all of it. No, you only see a snippet.
[22:46] Landing Brand Partnerships (Even with a Small Following)
Keri: So when it comes to creators — you mentioned brand sponsorships, and that's one thing a lot of us would like to have. If you're doing a podcast, doing social media content, even if you have an email list, you want to get brand sponsorships as a way to make money. So what advice would you give to us creators out here who are looking to tap into brand sponsorships? I'm asking for the people, and I'm asking for myself.
Yvonne: I think one thing we forget is you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, so it's one thing to shoot your shot. I would recommend putting together a template email — this is just the base of regular copy, pitching the why, the how, and the possible results. The why: why should we partner with you, how do I align with your brand? The how: how am I going to put that out there on the channels — is it going to be social media, my podcast, how is this going to be done? And then the results: what am I going to share with you as proof of performance? For those who don't know, proof of performance means you actually did the work — "here are the links to the posts in which I mentioned your brand," and here it is, packaged up so you can repurpose it however you want. That's the baseline.
At a higher level, I would recommend having a media kit. A media kit takes the why, the how, and the results, and takes it even further — roughly four-ish pages, high level: who is Keri, what does Keri do, what are Keri's numbers, what are Keri's areas of specialty. You patch that up, have it with your pitch email, and say, "here's my media kit," and it also outlines your rates or what you're looking for. Some creators think because they only have 300 followers, they can't get paid — guess what, you can.
Keri: Oh, then let me go send some emails, because I got more than 300! I got over 2,000. Let me send some emails.
Yvonne: And then — I'm a huge believer in sliding into people's DMs, to try to figure out what we can do to partner together. There are times I've slid into DMs thinking nothing was going to come of it, and boom, got a response. So I think having a template email that's clean — please check your Grammarly. Install Grammarly on your computer, it is a lifesaver. Another thing, have that template email saved for different audiences — one for brand or product partnerships, one for conferences or speaking engagements, one for premieres or events. Different audiences need different things. Another thing you can do is find out who the brand's marketing or PR contact is — LinkedIn is your friend. You can go on the website and find the standard email, or take it a step further and hit LinkedIn, because if you type in the company, it'll pull up every person who works there, and you can find out if they're open to being reached out to.
[26:23] Marketing Magic: Rihanna vs. Beyoncé Product Rollouts
Keri: One of the things I love that you do on socials is your Marketing Magic breakdowns. So you've done Usher, of course you did Beyoncé — did you do Rihanna?
Yvonne: No.
Keri: What's that for, why not?
Yvonne: I'll tell you later. It's starting to become the Kim Kardashian effect for me — there are too many products out there.
Keri: I feel like they're all aligned, though — beauty, skin, hair.
Yvonne: To me, they're all aligned, but after a while, it's like, now she has the Fenty hair. And in my opinion, I didn't see a full rollout for that — I saw the teasers, but I didn't see the consistency of the rollout. So I think what she does well is she uses her platform to get people to buy the products, but then after that, we don't see consistent rollouts on that end.
Keri: So do you feel that way about Beyoncé and her products?
Yvonne: I feel like with Cécred, she got it right — because we saw it after it was launched. I don't think her fragrance line got the same treatment. But Cécred, she got right, because I think Beyoncé, as a person, is a smart businesswoman, but I don't think she feels very comfortable being in front of the camera, which is where the connectivity may lack for some audiences. But Cécred was done correctly because her mom, Miss Tina, was also involved — being a hairstylist — and they leveraged that knowledge to really push the brand.
Keri: Maybe that's why I decided to buy it — Miss Tina's in it!
[28:43] Marketing Magic: A Viral Campaign Moment That Got the Emotion Right
Keri: Who else do you think has had a marketing magic moment that's been really good? Not to get too political.
Yvonne: Can we do it? We can do it. VP Kamala Harris's team — well, your video about her went viral, so yes, we can talk about her.
Keri: I think, because I can tell you right now, when that video dropped, I said, ooh, and then "Freedom" was playing in the background, and I said, ooh, she got the sign-off on the song. It was so good — give that marketing team a raise.
Yvonne: Whoever's on her team, the way they're breaking these videos down to relatable language, not using political jargon all the time — it works so well. They're getting at the emotion.
Keri: They are getting at the emotion. And that's the feeling I don't think we've had in a while — I was like, this is giving me Obama-era energy, when Michelle Obama would talk about something familiar. And then when she dropped the video talking about her mom as a single parent, how they lived in apartments and her mom saved for a house, I felt that to my core, because my mom did the same thing. It's the relatability and the storytelling that they're doing that is so good.
Yvonne: Give the comms team a raise, they deserve it. Because the team is millennials and Gen Z — that's how we all communicate.
Keri: Did you see the one she did with Lance Bass?
Yvonne: I haven't seen that one.
Keri: He said something about what we're going to do on election day, and she came on camera and said "bye, bye, bye." They're definitely speaking to us with that one.
Yvonne: But you have to — if you want to reach the next generation, you have to be where they are. If they're on TikTok, you need to be on TikTok.
[32:50] Yvonne's Honest Take on AI in Marketing
Yvonne: Getting back to your point — in terms of campaigns done well, I'd say the Olympics did a great job. And I've also seen some really great beauty campaigns recently incorporating AI. I have a love-hate relationship with AI.
Keri: How do you feel about using AI for marketing?
Yvonne: I think there's nothing wrong with AI as long as you're being ethical about it. I think in the marketing field, there's going to be a new lane built that merges legal and AI together — because there's going to be someone who wants to use AI, but there needs to be checks and balances for how it's used. And how are people's images being used — this whole transfusion of people's faces onto other videos, fake videos that aren't real — someone from marketing is going to need to be the checks and balances behind these automation tools.
Keri: Because it's scary. The stuff people create looks way too real to know the difference, and we're still in the early stages of it.
Yvonne: I understand using AI to auto-generate text and copy — however, I can honestly tell when it's been written by AI. I could tell when the voice isn't authentic, when it's a computerized voice, because most people just copy and paste. If you're going to use it, use it as a base, to give you a foundation, and then change and tweak things to fit your voice — because sometimes what it spits out, I'm like, we don't talk like this. What I've noticed about younger marketers coming up is they're leaning too much on these automation tools to build their foundation — and eventually, someone's going to catch you. When you're asked to build a strategic marketing plan and you're wondering why you don't know how to do it, because you leaned on AI for your entire career, you're going to get fired, or put on a performance improvement plan, because eventually it catches up to you. It's a great tool to have, but it should not be the foundation of your educational and professional knowledge in this field.
[35:29] Advice for New Podcasters
Keri: Agreed. So, as you know, I'm a new podcaster — I'm stepping outside my comfort zone into this space to grow The Kickback with Keri brand. As someone who has her own podcast, with over 10,000 downloads, on multiple seasons — what advice would you give to new podcasters? On one side, you hear people say this space is oversaturated now, we don't need any more podcasts. On the other side, people say there's still room, there's still space. If you're someone new, you may not know best practices for consistency and steady growth. So what advice would you give?
Yvonne: Let's go back to that "oversaturated" part. Keri, when you go to Target, how many lipsticks do you see in the lipstick aisle? A thousand. But each lipstick has a different formula, different shades for different people — all the reds are not the same. Thinking about the number of reds you see in the cosmetic aisle is how I think about podcasts — every podcast is not for every person. So understanding what your listening audience may want, and being true to yourself — it's hard to come across as authentic just with a mic. People can sense in your voice if you're faking it. So that's number one: please be authentic, and make sure the platform you're building, like The Kickback with Keri, is who Keri is — don't come on as a political commentator when all you do is read the comments on the Shade Room.
Number two: when you're reaching out, make sure you have a system — I use Excel spreadsheets to organize my seasons. I have the theme for each episode on top, and the people I have in mind for that potential episode. Then I take a template email and reach out to them, asking if they'd be interested in being on the show, and I provide examples of past episodes so they can get a feel for the kind of content I create — because nobody wants to be on a podcast with "brothers who just have mics." Giving people an idea that you're not going to put them in some mess, with an "aha, switcheroo" moment, is really important. Once you have them confirmed, provide a run of show — it organizes the show for what people should expect: an overview, the questions you're going to ask, and you make clear what part is scripted versus where you're actually going to be engaging together.
And then, once it's done, I like to provide them the audio clip itself so they can put it on their website however they want, and also the artwork for social media — with their pictures provided to approve before it goes live, because no one likes a surprise. Don't use a picture from years ago that doesn't look like them now. And when you start your podcast, it's okay to be on maybe a couple of platforms at first and evolve from there. Everyone wants to grow quickly, but being on Spotify may not be where your audience actually is — I'm surprised that my most listeners are on the Samsung podcast app, and I'm an Apple girl all day. But that's where most of my audience is. And the final thing I'd recommend: if you have a website, create a landing page where all your episodes live — because the world can go crashing down, like we saw a few weeks ago with the airline outage, and you want your content to live somewhere so that if a platform crashes tomorrow, your podcast is still alive.
[40:27] Bonus Round: Renaissance vs. Cowboy Carter vs. Lemonade
Keri: Well, I appreciate it — I'm going to watch this episode again and take all my notes. So, one final question, and you're going to like this one: Beyoncé's Renaissance or Cowboy Carter?
Yvonne: I'm sorry, I gotta go Renaissance. I was even listening to it on the way over here, and I still listen to it in chronological order — I cannot listen to it mixed up. That album, from top to bottom, is still one of my favorites out of her entire body of work. Cowboy Carter, I like it, but sometimes I be crying — when I hear "Protector," when I hear "16 Carriages" in that first half of the album, I need to call my therapist. But the second half, I want to throw it back into a circle. With Renaissance, I start off with empowerment — when I hear "these motherfuckers ain't stopping me," I'm like, yes, sip my iced coffee on the way to the office.
Keri: Okay, here's another one: Renaissance or Lemonade?
Yvonne: I still pick Renaissance.
Keri: Why are you doing this to me?
Yvonne: However, Lemonade's visuals — besides Black Is King — as a visual album, will win over Renaissance, because we ain't got no visuals for that one.
Keri: Absolutely — you all visuals, honey. We know it's Beyoncé, but we still want something. Lemonade visually was cinematic.
Yvonne: I agree. However, if we were to compare Lemonade and Black Is King — I know that wasn't a traditional Beyoncé album — it's Black Is King for me. That was an amazing album.
Keri: Listen, I had to ask, because you're the president of the Beehive.
Yvonne: I'm an affiliate member. But I love Beyoncé, and not just from her music — I respect her as a businesswoman and a creative. That's a hill I will die on. Creatively, she has pushed the envelope — she challenges a lot of us not just to think about the product we're putting out, but the work it takes to get that great product. There are some creatives out there who just want to put a product out and aren't thinking about the total results.
[43:29] From Stylist to Marketer: Reflecting on Keri's Own Pivot
Yvonne: Like, for you, for example — when you do The Kickback with Keri on TikTok, it is well thought out. I pay attention to that.
Keri: Well, thank you, friend.
Yvonne: You're welcome. First of all, you're brilliant — let's give you your flowers. The fact that you have, in my opinion, pivoted in a way that takes you being a stylist at the core, when you started out in this industry, to now shifting into marketing, is a path that I don't think a lot of people realize you can take. You don't have to live in one creative space forever — you can pivot to others if there's connective tissue between them.
Keri: And I'm in the space I am by accident. Like, I didn't even seek it out — my friends, who are my clients, were like, "yeah, we need help with our social media marketing, and that's going to be you." And I was like, okay.
Yvonne: But think about it, Keri — you're a stylist, so you know how to visually put things together. It makes sense that you're working in that content space, because content is visuals, and you have to be able to build the building blocks to create that output, whether it's on social or through a newsletter. You have the ability to create a voice through clothing, through styling, that has now translated into this field. So it connects.
Keri: Thank you. I see it — some folks don't know how to do that. That was shame. Was it? It was.
[44:37] Why Yvonne Doesn't Gatekeep the Knowledge
Yvonne: I'm just sick of somebody going viral or saying, "here are my ten ways to build your [whatever], click my newsletter, link in bio" — and then there's a paywall.
Keri: Well, people are doing the most.
Yvonne: They are. But as someone who doesn't weaponize their knowledge for the benefit of monetary gain, I do find an issue with that. Because in our communities especially, a lot of us need help, and if we're going to be about our communities, be about our community. Which is one of the reasons why I have the newsletter — because at minimum, we could at least shop a brand, know a brand, be introduced to something new, to keep that dollar circulating in our communities. We all need help. If you tell me "click the link in bio" or "download my e-course," that to me is not helping — that's not authentic. If I'm looking to you for real help, give me the real help. Don't put an asterisk next to it in order for me to help you.
Keri: And I think sometimes people are afraid to give too much information online. At the end of the day, you give people the what — you don't necessarily have to always give the how, but you want to give them enough information that they feel like they can walk away and take action, or at least get to one step. And then the next step is reaching out to you. So someone could watch this and say, "I want to send pitches, I want to work on my storytelling for my brand," get to step one, and know they need to reach out to Yvonne for two, three, and four. But at least you gave them enough up front that they don't feel like they always have to pay for something to be able to take action.
Yvonne: Because that's what we're finding a lot now in this space — everything, you got to pay for. Give people enough to feel grounded, at least get started. Everyone's not going to take action, even with free information — we know that. But at least give people something so they feel like, okay, I can get started.
And I look at marketing in terms of Costco samples. You know how you go to Costco, you get a sample, you eat it, you're like, "ooh, that was good," and you try to be shy and come back for another. That's essentially how I look at building relationships — I give you the tea, I give you the information, I know eventually you're going to come back, and you'll keep me in the back of your mind when you're ready to bring me on board. So essentially, you're getting your Costco samples from me, but you know it's good information. And a lot of times when I work with clients, the first thing they say is, "I don't have a whole lot of money to work with you." I'm like, did I put that up front? Tell me what your needs are, and we can meet in the middle and find a solution — because I don't want people to think my price is a barrier. I'm in a corporate space, that's the space I'm in, but I'm choosing to do this to work with you. I'm not looking to be rich off of you — I'm looking to make sure that you are successful. That's the main goal.
[47:50] Where to Find Yvonne + Pink Dollhouse Marketing
Keri: And where can people find you?
Yvonne: You can find me on the socials, duh. Instagram at Pink Doll Style, and also my business page at Pink Dollhouse Marketing. You can find me on TikTok — aka the clock app — at Pinky Creates. And of course, I have a website, y'all: PinkDollHouseMarketing.com, for all the things. Feel free to slide into my DMs, that's cool — but if you're weird, I will block you.
[48:26] Closing
Keri: Awesome. Y'all, make sure y'all follow Yvonne — we'll also put all her information in the notes of today's episode. Thank you so much for being here, I appreciate you coming and being my guest.
Yvonne: You're welcome. I appreciate you.
Keri: Until next time, guys — thanks for watching. Bye!
